Saturday, October 29, 2005
Ending of Rocky: Good or Bad?
(Short description for those who haven't seen the movie - warning, this describes the ending.)
From IMDB.com (unbiased source)
"A small time boxer gets a once in a lifetime chance to fight the heavyweight champ in a bout in which he strives to go the distance for his self-respect. "
How it ends: Rocky gets knocked down in the first round, but recovers to go the distance and finishes the brutal fight along with the champ (Apollo Creed.) After fifteen rounds in boxing, the judges must declare a winner, and they pick Apollo.
So was that a good ending? Without further ado... Fight!
Matthew (Pro): This issue is so much bigger than Rocky’s ending. It's a battle between philosophies - between people who can be realistic and people who live in a dream world where they get everything they want, like California boy over there. People who think Rocky should have won aren't focusing on the movie. They're visualizing a hundred other movies where the hero does the impossible to achieve an ending that isn't fair or reasonable, but manages to put some ooey-gooey warmth in naïve hearts. Look, I think happy endings are terrific – as long as they’re realistic. An amateur Rocky knocking out the heavyweight champion of the world would be deus ex machina - God from the machine - a form used in ancient plays where when all hope was lost, a spirit descended and fixed everything. Deus ex Rockina would have taken the movie's strength and turned it to sap.
Kevin (Con): Think with me for a moment. Ponder Sylvester Stallone. While you are doing that – oh. You’re done? You mean he is a one-dimensional actor who does triumph and nothing else well? Sure, he is inspiring as Rambo (for further scrutiny check out UHF) and that guy that hangs on cliffs. But when Rockina (an excellent feminine choice, thank you Mr. Phoenix) falls like a little girl in the first round, only to mount an awe-desiring non-comeback, does anyone else besides me feel gypped? For my part, pulling out an Uzi or a bow with fiery arrows was not entirely out of the question for him in order to win the round at that point. Rockina may have been knocked down early, but why drag us out for another twenty minutes, only to drop us like rocks and lose by decision? The Arizona sun is getting to your well-surfaced head, Matt.
Matthew (Pro): Kevin, you’re missing the point – the movie DOES end with Rocky triumphing.
Rocky himself states that his goal is NOT to beat Apollo, but to "go da distance" and finish the fight. He's not the fighter that he is in the sequels. He's a local hero who wants to prove that he can hang with the national champ, even when no one else ever had. The point of the extended fight is to see if Rocky can do it - and he does. Apollo is the better fighter, but Rocky goes the distance. Happy and realistic. What's wrong with that?
Kevin (Con): Matt, I’m surprised at you. After railing in your opening salvo against ooey-gooey warmth and naïve hearts, you were broadsided by some guy that don’t speak good English who claimed to have an admirable goal. Now, I can study for four years of college, and when the verdict is handed down and I see a 3.3 GPA, I can say that’s what I was hoping for all along. But don’t you think that I would be happier with a 3.9? Our culture doesn’t want to
endorse average endings and mediocre people. We want the sensational, the win, the KO.
Matthew (Pro): A run-of-the-mill "average ending" is what you would give Rocky. Instead, we got a great ending where the better fighter won. Whew - like Rocky, I now know what it’s like to battle an opponent who dramatically outweighs me. But it won’t help you here! Readers, give me your vote.
Kevin (Con): I must protest the statement, "the better fighter won." Rocky pummeled Apollo for the last fourteen rounds, only to fall short in score because of round #1. If the fight had gone longer, Rocky would have won. A better fighter is not necessarily determined simply by experience in the ring.
Well, these two have gone the distance. Who would you judge to be the winner? Vote below - every vote counts!
From IMDB.com (unbiased source)
"A small time boxer gets a once in a lifetime chance to fight the heavyweight champ in a bout in which he strives to go the distance for his self-respect. "
How it ends: Rocky gets knocked down in the first round, but recovers to go the distance and finishes the brutal fight along with the champ (Apollo Creed.) After fifteen rounds in boxing, the judges must declare a winner, and they pick Apollo.
So was that a good ending? Without further ado... Fight!
Matthew (Pro): This issue is so much bigger than Rocky’s ending. It's a battle between philosophies - between people who can be realistic and people who live in a dream world where they get everything they want, like California boy over there. People who think Rocky should have won aren't focusing on the movie. They're visualizing a hundred other movies where the hero does the impossible to achieve an ending that isn't fair or reasonable, but manages to put some ooey-gooey warmth in naïve hearts. Look, I think happy endings are terrific – as long as they’re realistic. An amateur Rocky knocking out the heavyweight champion of the world would be deus ex machina - God from the machine - a form used in ancient plays where when all hope was lost, a spirit descended and fixed everything. Deus ex Rockina would have taken the movie's strength and turned it to sap.
Kevin (Con): Think with me for a moment. Ponder Sylvester Stallone. While you are doing that – oh. You’re done? You mean he is a one-dimensional actor who does triumph and nothing else well? Sure, he is inspiring as Rambo (for further scrutiny check out UHF) and that guy that hangs on cliffs. But when Rockina (an excellent feminine choice, thank you Mr. Phoenix) falls like a little girl in the first round, only to mount an awe-desiring non-comeback, does anyone else besides me feel gypped? For my part, pulling out an Uzi or a bow with fiery arrows was not entirely out of the question for him in order to win the round at that point. Rockina may have been knocked down early, but why drag us out for another twenty minutes, only to drop us like rocks and lose by decision? The Arizona sun is getting to your well-surfaced head, Matt.
Matthew (Pro): Kevin, you’re missing the point – the movie DOES end with Rocky triumphing.
Rocky himself states that his goal is NOT to beat Apollo, but to "go da distance" and finish the fight. He's not the fighter that he is in the sequels. He's a local hero who wants to prove that he can hang with the national champ, even when no one else ever had. The point of the extended fight is to see if Rocky can do it - and he does. Apollo is the better fighter, but Rocky goes the distance. Happy and realistic. What's wrong with that?
Kevin (Con): Matt, I’m surprised at you. After railing in your opening salvo against ooey-gooey warmth and naïve hearts, you were broadsided by some guy that don’t speak good English who claimed to have an admirable goal. Now, I can study for four years of college, and when the verdict is handed down and I see a 3.3 GPA, I can say that’s what I was hoping for all along. But don’t you think that I would be happier with a 3.9? Our culture doesn’t want to
endorse average endings and mediocre people. We want the sensational, the win, the KO.
Matthew (Pro): A run-of-the-mill "average ending" is what you would give Rocky. Instead, we got a great ending where the better fighter won. Whew - like Rocky, I now know what it’s like to battle an opponent who dramatically outweighs me. But it won’t help you here! Readers, give me your vote.
Kevin (Con): I must protest the statement, "the better fighter won." Rocky pummeled Apollo for the last fourteen rounds, only to fall short in score because of round #1. If the fight had gone longer, Rocky would have won. A better fighter is not necessarily determined simply by experience in the ring.
Well, these two have gone the distance. Who would you judge to be the winner? Vote below - every vote counts!
# posted by Matthew d. @ 5:34 PM 
Comments:
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Ohright...now its time for the expert opinion (meaning I've seen the Rocky movies thousands of times, can sing Eye of the Tiger word for word, and stare at Rocky everynight when I lay my head down to sleep). What both competitors forgot to mention is that the ending in RockyI had nothing to do with the fight. Of course everyone is disappointed that Rocky lost BUT everyone walked out smiling because he got the girl. After I watch RockyI I dont start yelling saying "Woohoo that was REALISTIC!!!" I say "Get your bootie up Rocky and knock that fool out!"
The only reason the ending of the movie is decent is because of Adrienne losing her hat running to the ring yelling Rocky. I mean come on....thats any guys dream. If the ending was so good they wouldn't have made a sequel. The whole point of a sequel is that people aren't satisfied with the ending of the original. The ending of RockyII brings all the qualities of the first ending and takes it to a new level. Who can forget Adrienne coming out from the coma saying "Win...Win!!" Or when Rocky gets knocked down and comes back to his corner and proclaims "I ain't going down no mo!!" That is the kind of stuff that gets your blood pumping ladies and gentlemen. Then after he is given the championship belt, he looks into the camera at his wife and yells "Yo Adrienne! I did it!!" Yes Rocky, you did do it and I'm proud of ya. Even if I did have to wait for the sequel.
For this comment to count as a vote I will now say that Kevin wins!! You should have said something about Adrienne Du Mee. But I guess its hard to think about an Adrienne when you have a Christy at your side.
The only reason the ending of the movie is decent is because of Adrienne losing her hat running to the ring yelling Rocky. I mean come on....thats any guys dream. If the ending was so good they wouldn't have made a sequel. The whole point of a sequel is that people aren't satisfied with the ending of the original. The ending of RockyII brings all the qualities of the first ending and takes it to a new level. Who can forget Adrienne coming out from the coma saying "Win...Win!!" Or when Rocky gets knocked down and comes back to his corner and proclaims "I ain't going down no mo!!" That is the kind of stuff that gets your blood pumping ladies and gentlemen. Then after he is given the championship belt, he looks into the camera at his wife and yells "Yo Adrienne! I did it!!" Yes Rocky, you did do it and I'm proud of ya. Even if I did have to wait for the sequel.
For this comment to count as a vote I will now say that Kevin wins!! You should have said something about Adrienne Du Mee. But I guess its hard to think about an Adrienne when you have a Christy at your side.
# posted by 
: 10/31/2005 2:29 PM
: 10/31/2005 2:29 PM
I'm feverish, but I'm going with Kevin. Gotta like the drive, the finish, the refusing to be happy unless you win or collapse trying.
I won't vote because I haven't seen Rocky. I'm inclined toward Matt's opinion, but you can't make me vote :-)
Gentlemen,
After much consideration (and procrastination), I have decided to cast my vote in favor of a double loss. This concept should not be unfamiliar to fans of boxing films. The recent Russell Crowe boxing flick "Cinderella Man," features such a pugilistic encounter. The scene is painful to watch. Two fighters, at least one of whom is capable of so much more, circle one another endlessly and fail to engage each other or the audience. After a few rounds, the ring official mercifully calls the fight. The entire bout was proclaimed to be a non contest.
This first Matt v. Kevin post bears an eerie resemblance to that match--two intellectual giants, perhaps lacking the mental celerity they so recently possessed, playing verbal patty-cake with one another and attempting to prop up their tired arguments with witticisms and ad hominem attacks. While the back and forth is entertaining, they both commit the “Red Herring Fallacy” by drawing their readers’ attention away from what is really at stake in the film.
The Real question is not “Is the ending good or bad?” Rather, it’s “Did Apollo receive sufficient punishment for using the American flag as underpants?” (Click on this link for a photograph http://www.geocities.com/
SunsetStrip/Alley/7199/rocky2.jpg)
I think the answer to that question is a resounding no. Shame on Apollo for using the American flag as underwear; shame on Rocky for not punishing him to a greater extent for doing so; and shame on you two citizens for talking about such mundane matters as the nature of victory and love when we have a flag desecration on our hands.
Matt Brownfield
After much consideration (and procrastination), I have decided to cast my vote in favor of a double loss. This concept should not be unfamiliar to fans of boxing films. The recent Russell Crowe boxing flick "Cinderella Man," features such a pugilistic encounter. The scene is painful to watch. Two fighters, at least one of whom is capable of so much more, circle one another endlessly and fail to engage each other or the audience. After a few rounds, the ring official mercifully calls the fight. The entire bout was proclaimed to be a non contest.
This first Matt v. Kevin post bears an eerie resemblance to that match--two intellectual giants, perhaps lacking the mental celerity they so recently possessed, playing verbal patty-cake with one another and attempting to prop up their tired arguments with witticisms and ad hominem attacks. While the back and forth is entertaining, they both commit the “Red Herring Fallacy” by drawing their readers’ attention away from what is really at stake in the film.
The Real question is not “Is the ending good or bad?” Rather, it’s “Did Apollo receive sufficient punishment for using the American flag as underpants?” (Click on this link for a photograph http://www.geocities.com/
SunsetStrip/Alley/7199/rocky2.jpg)
I think the answer to that question is a resounding no. Shame on Apollo for using the American flag as underwear; shame on Rocky for not punishing him to a greater extent for doing so; and shame on you two citizens for talking about such mundane matters as the nature of victory and love when we have a flag desecration on our hands.
Matt Brownfield
# posted by : 11/03/2005 11:49 PM
: 11/03/2005 11:49 PM
I think it is quite obvious, Mr. Brownfield, that in my very last remark of the bout, I was implicitly referring to ring fashion sense and an acute sense of patriotism as seen in Rocky but lacking in Apollo. If you didn't take it to mean this, I am sorry, but I encourage you to realize this truth and change your verdict to a vote for me.
# posted by : 11/04/2005 11:03 AM
: 11/04/2005 11:03 AM
Brownfield,
While I appreciate your post, I hate to inform you - that you're uninformed.
Apollo isn't wearing the AMERICAN flag! He's wearing those shorts as an homage to his home country of Liberia.
For further proof, view Liberia's flag here:
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/countryfacts/liberia_flag.html
Liberia, to the best of my knowledge, does NOT have a flag code similar to the United States.
Brownfield, you should really be more culturally sensitive before you go off without all the facts. In the recent spirit of Washington, D.C., I demand an apology!
; )
~Matthew
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While I appreciate your post, I hate to inform you - that you're uninformed.
Apollo isn't wearing the AMERICAN flag! He's wearing those shorts as an homage to his home country of Liberia.
For further proof, view Liberia's flag here:
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/countryfacts/liberia_flag.html
Liberia, to the best of my knowledge, does NOT have a flag code similar to the United States.
Brownfield, you should really be more culturally sensitive before you go off without all the facts. In the recent spirit of Washington, D.C., I demand an apology!
; )
~Matthew
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